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Author Topic: Dishwasher Leaks & Loud When Pumping: Trouble Figuring Out Which Part Is Bad  (Read 338 times)

Offline PGB1

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  • Member Since: May 2015
  • Posts: 12

Hi All!
I have a Kitchenaid KUD1230BWHO dishwasher from about the mid 1990's (Before Whirlpool bought Kitchenaid)

When the unit pumped to drain last evening, the pump made a loud, groaning sound. Then the sound quit & it pumped fine.
Today, I looked under the unit and turned the pump on. Water sprayed from around the motor. (I have poor eye sight, but I think the motor fan was throwing the water.)

On Line, I searched for a seal for the leak problem and bearing for the loud noise, but got myself very confused. There are several seals for this machine's motor area and I sure can't figure out which one is the one to replace.
As far as the loud noise is concerned- There are no foreign objects stuck in the pump, so my guess is there is a bearing to replace. Again, I had no luck finding a part related to the noise. (I did find a whole, new pump but it was over $600.00. We'll skip that option for this machine.)

Without seeing the unit in person, do you all know what parts are required, or do you have any tips for me to use in diagnosing?

I sure appreciate the help and education.
Enjoy Today!
Paul
PS: By coincidence during yesterday's drying cycle, a door spring broke with an enthusiastic Bang! Curse of Friday the 13th? (Also my wife's birthday. Ouch!)

Offline PGB1

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  • Member Since: May 2015
  • Posts: 12
UPDATE-
I couldn't figure out how to edit the above post I made, but here is an update:

I re-checked the leak for quite a while & several start-stop of the machine, hoping for clues.
When the machine has water in the tub and it is off, there is no leak.

But when the motor starts, either in Wash or Drain, water sprays under the machine for less than half a second, then stops. It isn't enough to make the floor wet, just a brief, light mist.

Looking under the machine, there is a black disc at the top of the motor. I think the water is coming from above that disc, but below the tub. I apologize, but my eyesight is poor, so I can't verify.

Going back to the parts diagrams, I am still lost a about which seal is bad. And, I haven't re-investigated the groaning noise yet.

Thanks Again for helping & sharing knowledge!
Paul

Offline tcarmen

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  • Member Since: Dec 2018
  • Posts: 90
I believe you need the 675806 pump and impeller kit. It includes a new seal.

Offline PGB1

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  • Member Since: May 2015
  • Posts: 12
Thank You Very Much, TCarmen, for taking time to reply and also for supplying the correct kit number.
You really cleared up my confusion & saved me hours of searching. I appreciate your help very much & will order the kit tonight.

Last evening, I left water in the tub to the washing level in order to find out if the seal where the motor bolts to the tub was also leaking. Fortunately, the only water in the tray I left under the machine was from around the shaft. If that seal turns out to be bad, it looks fairly simple to replace.

I disassembled inside and first found that the Wash Impeller's screw came out and the impeller came off, thus breaking the hub. (I think some thread locker compound would have been a wise factory choice.)

I chose to take more apart out of curiosity about the kit parts installation & found the Pump Impeller (the lower one) was also broken at the hub, but still on the shaft. No wonder some water always stayed in the tub after a cycle.

Next, the machine was pulled from the cabinet & laid down so I could check, clean & tighten everything under the machine. (I was curious how it all works at this point, so cleaning was a good excuse to explore.)

I put a new hook on the broken door spring (cold bend so the temper wasn't ruined). So far, so good.

I wonder if the liquid Cascade detergent is what caused the impellers to become brittle enough to break. (There sure is a lot of crusty residue in the machine, which I think may be the detergent.)

Thank You Again for helping me with this problem, TCarmen. I sure appreciate it.
Enjoy Today!
Paul
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 07:38:56 PM by PGB1 »

Offline tcarmen

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  • Member Since: Dec 2018
  • Posts: 90
Glad to help!

The detergent didn't hurt the impellers. They just tend to get brittle and break eventually.

As long as you have it all apart, check the motor and see if there's any place you can add a few drops of light oil to the top bearing. When the water leaks through, it tends to wash out the oil.

Offline PGB1

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  • Member Since: May 2015
  • Posts: 12
Thanks Again TCarmen for helping & teaching. Thanks, too, for your tip about oiling the motor bearings. I'll check for oil ports today.

I keep finding more small items to fix along the way, such as the part called # 9741739 Pump Outlet. There is an almost oval shaped cover on the top where water travels. It was warped and had a gap between the oval cover and the body. Fortunately it turned out to be ABS (or similar) so I could solvent weld it back in place. There are many other places on various parts where plastic cracked or warped. It's a journey of discovery & repair. (But interesting)
Hopefully the machine will wash & rinse much better when i'm finished finding & fixing all the water path leaks.

If you don't mind a curiosity question that came to mind, I'd sure appreciate learning more...

There is a part that is screwed into the pump and the drain hose connects to it. It's a long, white plastic tube. The part is called #675238 Drain Check Valve. Since it is called "Check Valve"
I expected to see a flap or ball inside to make it "check". The tube is 100% empty from end to end. Is there supposed to be something in there to keep the water in the hose from backing into the machine, or does the check ball in the pump base do that job instead? I tried looking at various vendors' part photos, but could not tell if the tube is empty.

Thanks Again For Helping!
Paul

Offline tcarmen

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  • Member Since: Dec 2018
  • Posts: 90
I'm not sure about the check valve. Sorry. I haven't worked on your design of dishwasher for a very long time and it's kind of fuzzy.

Also, you should replace any warped or damaged parts, not try to glue them together.

The dishwasher won't work well if any of the parts are warped or damaged, even if you glue them, also most flue is toxic for people and won't hold in hot water and detergent under pressure.

Terry
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 06:55:53 AM by tcarmen »

Offline manden

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  • Member Since: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 290
Take a look at the following they have views of it looking from the end.
https://www.appliancepartspros.com/whirlpool-check-valve-675238-ap2910020.html


Offline johnboy3

  • Technician
  • Member Since: Nov 2012
  • Posts: 346
  • Country: us
I hope your restoration of the Kitchenaid dishwasher is going well.  Also, I agree with tcarmen that you should replace any damaged parts rather than try to patch them.  By the way, Whirlpool acquired Kitchenaid in 1986, prior to that the model number plate would show Hobart as the manufacturer.  Good luck!
Johnboy3

Offline PGB1

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  • Member Since: May 2015
  • Posts: 12
Thanks Terry for the important reminder about the adhesive toxicity & performance.
Unfortunately, the part is obsolete & must be saved (if possible).

Your reminder has me thinking about the safety of my repair.
I do know the adhesive will tolerate the temperature, chemicals involved, pressure & vibration, but I have to study toxicity when heated after curing. I must have brain gapped since I used to work in food processing plant as an electrician. We had access to many FDA, USDA & MDA approved adhesives for food contact, clean-ability and heat-cold-vibration resistance. If needed, I'll cut out the repair & start over with the proper stuff. (Plenty of time since the seal kit is on back order.)  Plan B- 3-D Printing to the rescue.

Plan C- New dishwasher sooner than we planned. The machine is 24 years old, so it certainly does not owe us anything. It's a great machine- With NO electronics. It's all electro-mechanical. I hate to give that up.

Thanks Manden for the link to the part photo. It looks like something belongs in there. Next week I have a work job not far from Repair Clinic's retail location. I'll stop in and see if they have a new one to which I can compare the old.

Thanks for your sentiments, JohnBoy3. It's a fun project, as I like to explore machinery of any type! (Except cars...)

Ours must be a Whirlpool version, because it is from 1995.
We're no fans of that corporation after we had horrible problems trying to get warranty repairs on our washing machine, dryer and refrigerator purchase- none of which worked out of the box. It was a months long fight to get any of them working. (Long story....) We try to stay clear of Whirlpool owned brands from here on out. (The washing machine and refrigerator still break down on a regular schedule. The dryer is good at only a once-a-year failure.)

We also have a portable dishwasher from the 1950's or 60's which someone gave us used. It is Hobart Kitchenaid. My wife uses it for cleaning antique things she buys. That machine is built like a tank. Even the cabinet is 10 gauge.
Other than replacing the Formica-like top insert and periodic blowing out of the motor windings, I've never put one minute into repairing it during the 35+ years we've owned it.

Where I used to work, we had lots of Hobart industrial and commercial food processing & cleaning machinery- even arc welders. They put up with all the abuse the line workers could hand out and tolerated the steam and harsh chemical cleanings multiple times per day. The machine repair guys didn't like working on them, but I liked wiring them since the motor starters were usually built in and compartments generous.

Thanks Again guys for helping me with this repair-learing experience. Hopefully the parts will arrive soon & I can test my skills!

Enjoy This Day!
Paul