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Author Topic: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes  (Read 29257 times)

Offline grkeener

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2013, 12:10:11 PM »

by the way to best clean the dishwasher pour 1 gallon of vineger into bottom and let soak overnite then run a cycle next day
dont put c.l.r. into dishwasher some parts may be sensative to it and damage the dishwasher
bk1953

Offline Rick52768

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2013, 01:04:36 PM »
I will try vinegar then.  Some folks here said it was a good step, but I understand how it could be a problem if left to soak too long.  The only problem is I think the sprayer arms have gunk in them.  I believe this as I can see some hard water crust where the two halves on the plastic spray arm meets.  I may try them in the sink upside down as the vinegar in the bottom of the tub will do nothing for the spray arms in the terms of soaking.

Offline grkeener

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2013, 01:21:27 PM »
as long as the holes are not gunked they should be good. but cleaning cant hurt
bk1953

Offline Rick52768

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2013, 01:23:45 PM »
Holes are clear, but I will clean the arms as well.  Vinegar is in the dishwasher well soaking already.

Offline Rick52768

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2013, 10:32:40 AM »
I did have a few bit of "stuff" that came out of the bottom spray arm.  I put masking tape over the holes and filled the arm with vinegar, which worked fairly well.  Running the vinegar cycle right now (which soaked overnight) and to get the full use of the vinegar, I disconnected the drain pump for the first three drain time and then reconnected it.  So I did notice a big difference with more water in the tub.  But I still do not know what the normal sound or water level should be.  And of course I did hear a difference as it even tripped the overflow sensor due to missing that first drain cycle (or 3 to be correct). 

Of my many questions, would adding enough water to trip the overflow sensor after the start-up drain cycle help in the following wash/rinse cycles as the rest of the drain cycles are shorter than the first cycle? I will have to move stuff and clean the basement to prepare for the call to the water company to solve the low pressure, or low volume issue as I have no idea what they will do to fix it, if anything.  I have heard of a test that will let you know how many gallons/min are being delivered to the unit which from memory involves a measured container and a stop watch.  But my question would be what is the required minimum volume for my dishwasher?

 There is still "dirty" water in the quite sump area after this vinegar run.  Is it normal after a complete normal wash cycle to have dirty water in the quite sump?  How does the quite sump ever really get clean?  What does the turbidity sensor do in the terms of actions the dishwasher will take if it senses the water is dirty?  Can I test the sensor with a multimeter?  I am soaking the heating element which has some hard water crust on it with paper towels soaked with vinegar.  Hopefully that is the cause of the dirty water in the sump this time.  And then I will run a complete cycle without any dishes but with soap, adding water after the first drain and see the condition of the quite sump water.  Then run a complete cycle with clean glasses on the top shelf and see if they are clean or dirty, but any help before hand that would guide me in the run direction would be great.  Thanks

Offline sparky823

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2013, 01:46:32 AM »
Could your fill valve not be opening fully during the fill? I know you said you checked the screen but couldn't deposits(mineral) inside the valve prevent a full flow?
I have also read where some people remove the flow restrictor in the valve without any problems when they have low water pressure.

Offline Rick52768

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2013, 10:39:45 AM »
Is there an easy way to check to see if it is flowing as it should? Do all models of dishwashers have restrictors?  I will check the donor unit (same make, model and year) to see if it has a restrictor as I cannot remember seeing one when I check the inlet filter but I was not looking for one at that time.  Thanks for the help.

Offline sparky823

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2013, 01:23:04 AM »
If you could rig it up to fill with the door open, then you could see how well it pours into the machine, otherwise just have to go by how much is in the bottom after it stops filling.
 
The restictor is inside the valve at the bottom of the strainer-at least on a Kenmore/Wpool. And Yes I do believe all of them have restrictors.

Offline Rick52768

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2013, 05:50:55 AM »
All it takes on my model is to use a screw driver to push in the latch on the door to trick it to work with the door open.  I will do a visual on the fill, but have no norm to base my results on. I checked the donor unit fill valve and did not see anything that looked like a restrictor. Is it just a washer with a smaller hole in the center?

Offline sparky823

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2013, 07:50:53 PM »
Best I remember on mine, it was like an o ring that fit around a plastic disk(?)-the disk has holes in it and the strainer fits over this. When you pull the strainer out then you see the other piece(disk) in the bottom of the valve.
 
Maybe just switch the valve off the donor onto this machine and see if you get more water or you might just need a new valve.
 
 

Offline Rick52768

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2013, 08:32:13 PM »
I was thinking about swapping valves and likely will just see if there is any difference but I was just trying to see if I could work on it from a mor scientific approach then trying the part swapping monkey approach. I think before I swap it I will get a baseline on how quick I fill a gallon jug and compare the "new" valve from the donor.

Offline Rick52768

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2013, 05:57:24 PM »
Okay, ran the dishwasher with normal setting and it was not bad as I could find only one gritty glass, bowl and fork.  So it sucked!  There is also a fair amount of "dirt" in both sides of the sump.  I checked the water flow coming into the body of the dishwasher and I feel that it is low.  But with nothing to compare it to, I really have no idea what it should look like.  I guess I could take a picture of it filling if anyone thinks that would help?  Would I not see about the same pressure out of the valve as I see in the supply line to the valve? The donor valve has .2-1 bar, 0.021-1 MPa on it's side and my valve has invensys s-101 on it, if this is helpful to anyone willing to answer these questions.  Thanks again for help you can be.

Offline Rick52768

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2013, 06:35:19 PM »
Valve flow test: 128oz (gallon) of water in 1:15 minutes.  Total fill time 1:30 with a total of 149 oz.  Sound normal?  Flow from supply side looks like a pressure washer compared to the fill side using either valve I have on hand.  So I would think the house water pressure is not an issue, other than if it drops the fill side would be that much less.

Offline niobrara

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2013, 07:13:31 PM »
Rick are you sure your motor pump is just not weak and not moving enough water?

Offline Rick52768

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2013, 07:25:37 PM »
No, as I have no idea what a normal acting pump would look like. Looks like good volume of water to me. If I remove the spray arm the water shoots fairly high. Have a good way to test it?

Offline niobrara

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2013, 07:35:49 PM »
I set all the arms facing towards the door after it is full and start it. I let it run about 1 minute and slowly open the door and see where the arms are.If there turning, I just fix them I do not design them and sometimes what we bought is what we have. I really dont have any idea what is wrong with that unit it seems to be working as designed. You fill, your have pressure you drain and you have heat. :popcorn:

Offline Rick52768

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2013, 07:58:51 PM »
I get where you are coming from.  I am just trying to get any insight into why this dishwasher makes the dish clean, but leaves dirt or grit on them at the same time.  I was hoping that someone who has worked on this crappy model would point me in the right direction, but any brand or model should work fairly close.  The spray arm does turn at a okay pace and shoots water to the top of the tub.  In fact, that is how the grit gets in the bottom of the glasses which are upside down on the top rack.  So the dirty water never seems to be removed from the dishwasher, collects in the sump(s) and sprays on the dishes at even the last cycle.  I would agree with the folks that think it is the volume of water.  Just surprised that no one seem to have a reference on what a normal flow and volume of water should be.  How much water should the tub normally have?  I am sure this may vary make and model wise, but at least an average.

Offline niobrara

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2013, 11:42:57 PM »
 Just surprised that no one seem to have a reference on what a normal flow and volume of water should be.  How much water should the tub normally have?  I am sure this may vary make and model wise, but at least an average. OK you need 120 degree water coming in,min water pressure 20  max 120  6.7 gallons per wash cycle .83 flow rate. And it will not work if the water is to hard.

Offline Rick52768

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2013, 11:57:37 PM »
What does the .83 flow rate mean and is this 6.7 gallons total wash cycle as in 96 minutes?  The rest I have cover that you stated as I have had a water softener for over a year now. Thanks for the details.

Offline Rick52768

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Re: Frigidaire top spray arms not working, gritty residue on dishes
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2013, 12:06:04 PM »
Still in need of help or at least that is what the doctors say.  Here is a list of as much information about the recent past:

3-4 factory technicians looked at the problem while it was under warranty with no real change.
Fill time is 1 1/2 minutes
149 oz per fill cycle
Donor valve from the same model (had a couple of leaks) has the same flow rate
House water pressure is 62 psi at hose spigot
Water from bottom of spray arm hits the top of the tub
Back flow valve in place and not deformed
Inlet water temp 130
Water inlet filter clean
Water pressure (flow) to inlet valve strong
Both the soap and jetdry dispensers work
Total run time 30 minutes longer than the chart states
Water can be seen shooting with good force draining into the disposal
The inside of the dishwasher looks brand new due to heavy cleaning (vinegar)
I have forced the sump to be cleaned by forcing it into the drain function and adding water until the sump water is clear.  Dishes on this last run were lighting dirty.
There is always "stuff" floating in both sizes of the sump.  I believe the right side is the dirty "quiet" side and the left side is what water is used for washing dishes.

After a run you can tell that the dishes and glasses have been cleaned (no finger prints, shiny, etc..) but they have multicolored grit (dirt) on them.  So something is allowing the dirty water to mix with the filtered water.  As I am guessing that the two halves of the chamber should not mix and there would be no reason  (water level or lack of, temp of water, etc...) that should change this fact.
 So I feel pretty good and my guess that my problem is due to dirt/grit on the filtered side, but lack the knowledge or work experience to figure out why.  I am going to look at the sump system of my donor unit to see how the two chambers would mix, but still in need of a helping hand to give some pointers in dealing with this portion of dishwashers, Thanks.