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Forum Index => Range, Oven & Cooktop Repair => Topic started by: rego on September 01, 2011, 03:09:01 PM

Title: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 01, 2011, 03:09:01 PM
Just got a message from a customer who want's to know if I will install a new pilot assembly in her antique Chamber stove (she already has the assembly).  I have never even seen one outside of pictures.  Has anyone ever come across one of these and any thought's on wether I should take the job or refer her to someone else.  The last thing I want to do is damage an obviously pricey appliance because I have not worked on one before.  Thanks for any advice.

 :-\
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 01, 2011, 05:58:09 PM
Top or oven pilot? Why does it need a pilot? Most pilots orifices can be cleaned with a needle GENTLY insert the needle through the orifice opening and blow through it. If it is a "no heat " oven problem, most likely a dirty pilot and a thermocouple will solve the problem. The safety should be in the storage area below the thermostat. Have done hundreds so any trouble contact me. This is my specialty,the old stoves.  I am the Old Stove Guy.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 01, 2011, 06:08:03 PM
Thanks Old Stove Guy.  I haven't spoken with the customer yet to find out why she needs the new pilot assembly.  My worry is the word "Antique" and never having even seen one of these units.  My understanding is they have porcelein shells with a heck of alot of insulation and cast iron botttoms with thermal-pockets for the no gas cooking.  Can I access the pilot assembly easily?  Just fishing for more info because I'm in uncharted waters as far as the shell itself and accessing what I need.  I would love to hit you up for more information and will update when I talk with her to see what's going on.

Thanks,

Oh she said on the message it was for the oven, not sure if it is a dual or what yet.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 01, 2011, 06:39:21 PM
Never seen a double oven on a Chambers ,oven cavity is actually cast iron. Retained heat feature. The bottom of the oven is very heavy, but slides straight out with the door open. Like the racks slide out. In the storage on the side it will have a pilot valve, with screws to shut off individual pilots. 1 for the top, 1 for the deep well, and 1 for the oven. The pilot should shut off without moving the stove, then simply unscrew the compression fitting. Once you have done that use a fine needle a just clean out the orifice. Don't put too much presssure on it. Most of the time it is ash or dirt on the end of the orifice. Blow it out and change the thermocouple. DONE.     
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 01, 2011, 06:48:57 PM
Nice!  I think that is exactly what I need to know!  I was worried about moving the oven and how to access because I didn't want to mess with the porcelein or insulation.  I will call the customer tomorrow and find out more of what is going on.  I'm assuming these are standing pilots if there is a thermal couple.  Do you light it from inside the oven cavity then when the bottom has been put back (access tube) or before sliding it back in.

Thanks a ton!
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 01, 2011, 07:21:45 PM
Yes before you put the oven bottom back in because the screw will adjust the height of the pilot. You want it to surround the thermocouple about 2/3 around it. There should be 2 larger flames. One goes towards burner and the other towards the thermocouple. So pay attention to how it looked before you took it out. If you have a mini-pilot (a thermocouple and pilot combined) get in touch with me and I will give further instructions. I can do them in my sleep now. If you need parts, they make some new replacement parts for them.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 01, 2011, 07:27:08 PM
Fantastic!  I'll let you know when I know more.  Is there even a model number or were they running series...or just plain name brand...just wondering.

Thanks Again!
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 01, 2011, 08:05:42 PM
Several models but all very much the same. Some had high backs some low. Most had deep well cookers, some with 3 separate sections in the deep well. Timers, shelf area, salt and pepper racks. Oh yeah if she wants the pilot changed and it is a 1800-100 robertshaw pilot,explain it will have 2 more gas ports on it and be hotter in the oven when it is off. Best to clean the original unless shot. 
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 01, 2011, 08:23:22 PM
I deal with the robertshaw all the time on water heaters and pool heaters and it's always a straight swap.  I did some reading on these ovens and saw if the gas valve hasn't been rehabed every so often it should be.  The site I looked at said at least every 50 years...in this throw away society and building practices that just shocked me.  I really looking forward to working on it.  Just want to make sure I'm carefull and don't take any value away from an antique. 

I am going to be honest that I've never worked on one but confident I can take care of her problem but also tell her my liability insurance doesn't cover antiques (don't even have to call my agent for that) so she will have to understand before hand I cannot accept liability to the antique only my work on the problem at hand...that type of thing.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 01, 2011, 08:56:26 PM
Liability is the same as any other appliance. The only valves that may need service are the surface burner valves. The valve grease wears out after a while. The thermostats and safety valves only need to be done when they fail. Repco Replacement Parts in Texas rebuilds the thermostats, safety valves and makes a very good valve grease. My stove is a 1938 O'Keefe & Merritt. The only thing changed on this is 2 thermocouples, and I repacked the surface valves. According to the owner NEVER had a service call on it until I got it. All the rest is original to the stove. This how I got started. Now it's 15-20% of my business. I am the only person in the area who does them I cover a radius area of about 45 miles. just did one in Roseville CA. He had been referred by another customer. Paid hotel and gas plus labor and call to do it. 110 miles each way. Made a "get away" trip out of it. 3 hours work and my wife and I had the rest of the day to  do what ever.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 01, 2011, 09:04:08 PM
Good to know about the liability.  Nice business getaway.  Gotta love a nice time away expensed and paid for!  Can't thank you enough for the info!  I will keep you posted.  Who know's maybe I can carve a niche up here in Michigan as well.  It's all about knowledge and doing our best for the customer...I love this line of work.

Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 01, 2011, 09:41:23 PM
The way they build the new stuff , working on the old is great.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 01, 2011, 09:48:22 PM
for sure, easy diagnosis and repairable!
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 02, 2011, 11:26:53 AM
update:  Talked with the customer and have an appointement next thursday.  She has never used the unit before because it is not a standing pilot(it's a match light) and was uncomfortable with it.  She had a pilot assembly built or found a re-built not sure and it has directions for install and the company she got it from said the tech can call them if they have questions.  I will let you know after I look at the unit maybe I can snap some pics to post.

have you ever converted to a standing pilot? I would think it's pretty straight forward.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 02, 2011, 05:28:30 PM
You have to find a constant gas source to run the pilot for the oven. The lines are 3/8 aluminum from the oven valve to the oven. You can install a robertshaw safety in line with the oven in the left compartment. I run the pilot line through it as well. You hold button down and light like a water heater. I have added a 3/4 T and reduce to 1/8 and install a shut off for the pilot.(inside the storage area) If you run it through the safety you can adjust the height from there.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 03, 2011, 12:14:49 PM
Good idea with the shut-off for adjustment.  I found these instructions on-line, if they look good to you maybe AJ would want to post them on ApplianceDigest.

http://www.chamberstoves.net/InstallationInstructions_Rev_7.pdf

Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 03, 2011, 06:39:27 PM
One thing I have found is that the oven has a damper control (as shown in picture) also on the rear of the oven. When you turn on the oven both open. If you don't bend the lower "flap" and bend the rear flap, when oven is off it will not get enough air. Then the pilot will go out. Just bend a small 1/4 edge up on both.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 03, 2011, 06:47:47 PM
Make's sense.  How often appliance problems come down to air flow.  Considering it was made to close the dampners when off for continued heating and match lit of course it would need air for continious pilot but I never would have thought about it till it kept going out on me.  Just saved me a ton of troubleshooting.  I hope you don't mind me picking your brain over this but pretty excited about getting into the project.

Thanks for all your help!
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 03, 2011, 08:18:05 PM
I LOVE doing them. Better than the new stuff,as you can almost always save one of these. New stuff is almost 50/50 if it is worth fixing.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 03, 2011, 08:25:00 PM
For sure!  no computer diagnostic's tracking down a bad capacitor, triac, split wire, etc.  I do like the challenge of troubleshooting the new ones but working with the basics can be comforting. O0
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 08, 2011, 06:32:01 PM
Wow, Old Stove Guy.  It's very cool but have to do some research and not sure exactly what I'm going to do.  The customer had a repair man out 3 months ago...spent an hour and a half and was never seen again.  he dismantled and disconected various lines but nothing major that I can see.  As far as she know's it's an A series.  Everying is there to make the oven a stand alone pilot with thermal-couple using a T into the manifold.  This leaves (as far as I see) a standing pilot with no thermo-couple in the middle for the three burners.  The pilot for the thermowell has been  by the manifold...thank the Lord she didn't try to use this thing.  All controls need to be cleaned and repacked with grease (no biggy).  My hope is to try and make this thing standing pilot with thermal-couple's for the oven, burner's, and thermal-well.  The broiler/griddle is no problem for match light.  Is there a way to do this?  Am I looking at 3 seperate safety valves?  Am I completely wrong?  Just hoping to get your mind turning a bit...I have pictures of everything just had enough for the day and will post tomorrow.   :D
Thanks
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 08, 2011, 06:36:18 PM
just re-read....pilot for thermal-well has been cut at the manifold...boy I'm a little tired sorry.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 08, 2011, 06:51:10 PM
There are no safety valves for the top pilots or for the well (just like a new freestanding gas range made today,If pilot blows out gas still flows to the pilot.), It sounds like they may have tried to use the pilot line from the well to get constant gas for the pilot in the oven.??? Let me know.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 08, 2011, 07:03:46 PM
Will do.  Just a long day and not thinking straight.  I took a ton of pictures and it's time to figure out how to post them with the new Android App..I have some thought's on what to do hopefully they will still be with me in the morning :P
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 08, 2011, 07:09:54 PM
Pictures will help then I should be able to give specific ideas.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 09, 2011, 10:30:49 AM
Model A
You can see where someone cut the pilot line to thermal-well.  The wet mark is rust buster I put on in case I end up having to take it out.
The Pilot line for the burners is the larger line still connected.
Still researching ideas.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 09, 2011, 06:48:34 PM
Pilot to the well tubing can be replace with 1/8 tubing as long as you have a flaring kit. If the pilot in the well is missing it is the same as the pilot in the oven. As is the pilot valve off the oven valve. You can cap it if installing a safety. Why are all of the surface valves disconnected? I have an extra well pilot if all is gone.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 10, 2011, 08:49:24 AM
The service guy who was out before me disconected all of them I'm assuming he was going to take out the controls and grease them because they don't move.  So far I have struck out trying to install a safety for the burners no one makes them.  It just makes me a little nervous with that large of a gas line without a safety.  The customer really doesn't want it like that either and am wondering if I cap off the standing pilot could I make it a match light for each burner like the griddle/broiler.  Good to know about the well pilot I put a picture up of the current one and am doubtful if it is salvageable  if not how much do you want for the pilot you have?
Thanks!
 
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 10, 2011, 11:25:52 AM
The small white piece in the 2nd picture is the pilot I think ( hard to see) It should be a 1/8 or 3/16 compression fitting and has constant gas flow from the bent tubing on the manifold. New stoves with a pilot don't have safety valves for each burner just the oven. You don't have to remove the surface valves to rebuild them. They have a round "nut "on the end which unscrews, then slide the valve cylinder out . New valve grease, and done. In the 3rd picture you can see they turned the valves a quarter turn (nuts on top)to be able to unscrew the nuts. When done you turn it back. Insert the rods so when they push down the button and pull out the knob it will turn.  I use REPCO valve grease. They also are the company who rebuilds the thermostats and safety valves for the older stoves as well as other items. Repco Replacement Parts in Everman Texas.1-800-433-7146 or on line. http://www.erepco.com/ (http://www.erepco.com/) They also sell rebuilt safety valves with a better than new warranty. DO NOT USE stop cock grease, it will wear out in 6 months. Well that's a lot to absorb, let me know.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 12, 2011, 07:33:06 AM
All good to know, I didn't think the valves needed to come completely out for re-packing the guy who was out before me had one out and dissasembled as well as other pieces from the stove then just never came back...unfortanate...give's us repair tech.'s a bad name.  I'm hoping the oven pilot comes out without to many problems so I can use it for the well because the well pilot I believe is shot.  If not I will look at ordering one I know I will need one handle and will not know about the oven control until I have it up and running.
 
What is your opinion on capping the larger pilot for the three burners and making them individual match light?  I know the customer would be happier with that set up.
 
I think I have a fairly good handle on what to do with everything else just need to get over there and get on it...at least until the next time I come across something... :D
 
All in all your right it is all pretty straight forward just need to put some time into it.
 
Thanks
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 12, 2011, 08:25:28 AM
http://www.antiquestoves.com/toac/index.htm (http://www.antiquestoves.com/toac/index.htm) Has handles and books if needed. As for capping the pilot on top you could do the same for the well,or just shut off at the valve. Use the extra valve for the constant gas to the oven for the safety. When she wants to use the well, she can light through the storage area if needed. I am pretty sure I have a pilot for the well if needed, let me know I will look. Also I have information about the adjustments on the oven and secondary or "throttle " flame in the oven.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 12, 2011, 09:01:11 AM
I did contact antiquestoves.com so figured they would be a good source for handles.  Hopefully the oven pilot will still be of use for the well I'll just have to see when get it out.  Any info on adjustment's would be great.  I saw adjustable shutters on burner so am guessing that would be where I adjust but any specifics or process would sure help.

Thanks, you should add one of the beer icon's to your profile so I can buy ya one when all this is done!
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 12, 2011, 06:14:12 PM
Keep in touch when you are ready,Get more pictures if needed. As you can see my area is not loaded with info. never got around to setting it up.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 21, 2011, 04:09:57 PM
Just an update.  I have been sidetracked with a health problem in the family.  I got the old pilot out of the oven and istalled the new one and am going to build a bracket hopefully under the base of the storage compartment (if room and can make it neat) so there's still room for storage.  am going to cap off the pilot on manifold to thermowell and drill an access where old standing pilot is for long lighter in it's place (light from underneath in storage area).  all three burners will be match light as well as griddle/broiler.  I will be repacking the individual valves so they are usuable again and adjust air for the oven pilot.  I have a "T" for the new valve and will shut off and cap the option for burner's standing pilot.  Hope to be back there tomorrow to keep going.  The oven has a 3/4" regulator on it do you know if it calls for that much gas?  I have 1/2" coming from floor(main) and can easily step it up just seems like alot for an oven.  I usually only run into 3/4 for on demand water heaters.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 21, 2011, 08:25:56 PM
They NEVER had a regulator when new. I have never installed one as they work very well without. Old saying "if it ain't broken don't fix it. I have had 2 customers who installed regulators and they said never worked right since. Had 4 other customers said no problems at all with the regulator installed. 1/2" gas pipe inlet line will be fine.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 23, 2011, 11:59:10 AM
Stumbling block...have not been able to find a cap or plug for the pilot's I'm taking out of service in town.  I have a few more places to try otherwise hoping Repco has them, I did see they have various size plugs.  While repacking the valves (you're right very easy) I was looking at the connections and think I may be missing some parts.  Whatever the guy did before I got on the job has been a bit of an obstacle as far as retracing his steps but it appears there should be a linkage between the rod for the handle control and the lever on the valve.  I found a bunch of cotter pins that will fit in the rod for the handle but leaving the operating lever on valve in the down position there is no way to attach.  Any idea what I'm missing besides part of my brain :P .  I put a few pics up.
Thanks,
TGIF!
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 23, 2011, 03:23:53 PM
The valves have been turned 1/4 turn by the looks of the picture. Turn them back (or tighter if needed) and they should line up. If you don't have enough cotter pins use small brads. On the Thermostat valve you could leave it on the thermostat. The only time it gets gas is when the oven is turned on,so an extra small flame as long as the tube is intact and near the oven burner it's fine.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 23, 2011, 03:51:00 PM
Good to know about the valves.  Unfortunately the old pilot tubes are junk...one bent off for the termal-well; the oven one was crimped.  Not comfortable relying on the flame adjustment screw's on either to shut them off.  Do you think I should keep trying in town to find cap's or plug's or just go straight to Repco?  Not even sure of the size.  I'm tempted to tap and plug the one for thermo-well...just don't know enough about the thermostat to do the same.  this has become quite the project...still enjoy it though.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 23, 2011, 04:06:52 PM
If you have 2 pilots get tubing and connect them together. Not right but it will work and even if the valves leak(bypass) they will feed back into the manifold. Looks like 1/8" plug and 1/4" on manifold.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 23, 2011, 04:11:51 PM
I will keep trying for a plug but will route them together if needed.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 23, 2011, 04:13:47 PM
Got to get creative on this old stuff,make your own parts.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 23, 2011, 04:17:48 PM
I love it!  It's been alot of fun!  I do enjoy walking into the part's stores and getting the blank stare:)
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 23, 2011, 05:44:31 PM
Even better when you can get parts to rebuild a 70-80 year old stove, Then can't get a thermostat for a 10 year old stove.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on September 23, 2011, 05:56:18 PM
For sure!  Had a hot tub last winter(22 years old) with a circuit board that was bad and they didn't make it anymore so was looking at a $500 new power pack.  I made a deal with the owner if I couldn't fix the board it would be no charge for the repair.  Diagnosed the board and replaced bad relay...made more money than replacing the power pack with less hassle and saved him big $.  Crazy how they are making these things now...
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on September 23, 2011, 06:12:12 PM
Old stove work is 90% labor, rarely do they need parts. Maybe a $20.00 thermocouple and some valve grease. A little (or lot )of cleaning out burners ,orifices and such. Very simple machines. The fittings are very hard to find as no one makes 7/16 any more. I search all over the US and find stuff for them.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: cablescript on September 26, 2011, 07:36:38 PM
easy diagnosis and repairable!
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on October 13, 2011, 02:42:56 PM
Thanks Old Stove Guy!  Just wanted to close out this topic and let you know the Chambers is up and running nicely.  I installed the new safety valve and pilot (hidden under floor of storage); got rid of all standing pilot's for top burners, and thermal-well and made them match light.  Ended up making some cap's for the old pilot's with a compression nut and drop of solder sealed up nice and ready to go again if they change their mind's and want the pilot's back.  Have a very nice flame on all.  I would like to see the griddle with a more consistent flame all around (cleaned out all burner holes just think it neeeds to burn some of the crap left over after year's(?) of non use).  Customer is exctatic and want's to write me a review to post on my website or wherever!  For some reason it's not letting me post pics so I'll try that latter.  Thank's for all your help!  Another beer on your way! 
Cheers O0
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on October 13, 2011, 03:18:06 PM
some pics
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on October 13, 2011, 04:52:04 PM
 O0   BEAUTIFUL job, did you remember to bend "flap in oven open a bit so it wouldn't smother the pilot? If not and she calls back you know what to do. Simple and easy to work on aren't they? Now you know why I love doing them, especially after so many "NO DON'T TOUCH THEM" from other service companies.You will have a customer for life. Just finished another "call back" (YOU JUST REBUILT IT 19 YEARS AGO!) Had to do a tune up on it. Previous service company worked on it 9 times in 6 months charged $550.00. They never solved the problem ,now 19 years later and had to re-grease the valves and clean the pilots and burners. My original bill was $270.00. Went back and did the tune up for $150.00 for 45 minutes work.
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: rego on October 13, 2011, 05:02:13 PM
 :)  I explained to her why the pilot would extinguish after burning all the available air and what I would need to do was bend the flap slightly on the bottom and back for proper air flow and she does not want me to do it at this point.  She is going to leave the oven door just ajar and it's enough air to keep the pilot going.  We discussed why it need's air and she would like to go with it as it is before bending and making an air flow.  Lotta fun!   O0
Title: Re: Antique Chamber Gas Stove
Post by: theoldstoveguy on October 13, 2011, 05:04:24 PM
 :)   CHEERS!