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Forum Index => Washer Repair => Topic started by: Moose101 on April 28, 2008, 04:58:13 PM

Title: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: Moose101 on April 28, 2008, 04:58:13 PM
Well, here we go again… my Maytag Washer MAH4000AWW is acting up again!!!

About a year ago got the wax motor and fixed the burnt out control board (and it’s been working for a year without any issues).

Now it won’t wash... runs, fills up with water however when it’s supposed to kick into the wash mode (once filled with water) a LOUD ALMOST GRINDING SOUND can be heard for about a minute at which time the drum is still rotating and seems to be running normally. Once this sound stops the washer starts draining as if the wash cycle is over and it drains the water and spins out and finished the wash with the usual beeps of completion at the end.

Washer Process..
-   It runs (lights are working both ‘ON’ and ’DOOR LOCKED’ LIGHTS are on)
-   Fill up with water
-   Once it’s filled up with water and the motor runs and rotates the drum during the fill cycle
-   At this stage when it stops filling with water and should start to run the wash part .. LOUD SOUND STARTS for about 30-60sec or so and the loud grinding sound can be heard until it stops
-   Once Grinding Sound stops… Washer seems to go to end of cycle mode where it drains and spins out the washer (NORMAL and HIGH SPEED SPIN works with NO GRINIDING and DRUM Spins), so it runs for about 60 seconds and that's it and it drains usually it should wash for at least 20+ minutes correction noise would last for about 60 sec and knowing what I know the recirculation pump runs only for a little bit which is when the noise was being created

-When you open the washer the load is spun out as expected and ready for dryer

NOTE: when I say wash cycle I mean the part where the water is filled and the washer runs and tumbles for 20+ minutes when it's washing. All other parts of the wash cycle the filling, draining and spinning runs the normal length of time

Looks…
-   Everything in the back looks fine
-   I’ve pushed plugs in and everything
-   Checked the belt and took it off looks fine as it would be as per the ‘Washer Process’ above as it runs fine except that wash mode
-   I use ‘HE’ detergent and never had suds problems

So… HELP PLEASE

I’m thinking maybe something with the pump? But I’m not sure and that’s why I’m asking. I’ve read the forums and still can’t pinpoint the issue from reading them.

Oh No… I see my wife coming… run run ;-) just kidding she’s cool but would be good to get this fixed so I don’t need to buy a new washer.

Thanks
Mark
Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: JWWebster on April 28, 2008, 06:27:23 PM
sounds like one of them underwire womens things have gotten into the machine between the inner and outer tubs.
Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: Moose101 on April 28, 2008, 07:57:10 PM
Thanks for the info JW...

Well the wife hasn't lost any of them woman things  ;)

So, question is would something being stuck between the tubs cause the wash cycle to go from 20-40 minutes down to 60 seconds during the loud noise part. How would the washing machine which is still running and looks like its functioning skip the wash cycle and go into the drain water and finish mode as if it did go through a full wash cycle due to something being stuck in between tubs. I would think if something was stuck in between the inner and outer tub that I would hear the loud noise sound from start of wash to finish no matter what stage of the wash the machine was at… I should hear it even during the water fill and/or especially during the high speed extract part of the cycle and not just during one short part of the wash after the water finishes filling and only for about 60 seconds.

I hope that makes sense and you can explain, in my opinion the sound would happen throughout the whole wash especially if something was stuck in between and since the tub is rotating all the time the noise should happen all the time not just for 60 seconds.

Please clarify as I think whatever else happens when the actual wash portion starts (after the water fills) is making that noise for 60 seconds and due to that it's resetting something to think that it's done it's wash part only after 60 seconds instead of 20+ minutes and goes into the drain cycle where it drains the water. knowing what I know now as per above the noise would only be made when the recirculation pump is running which is only at certain parts of the wash.

Hope that makes sense and if you could clarify...

Thanks in advance for any input...

NOTE: when I say wash cycle I mean the part where the water is filled and the washer runs and tumbles for 20+ minutes when it's washing. All other parts of the wash cycle the filling, draining and spinning runs the normal length of time without any noise what-so-ever...
Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: AJ on April 28, 2008, 08:17:04 PM
Hi,

I believe this washer has two water pumps in it.
One pump drains the water out of the washer and the other pump recirculates the water during the wash cycle.

The recirculation pump sounds like it maybe making the noise you are hearing.

One way to check would be to remove the front panel and unplug the wire harness that goes to the pump while it's making the noise.

Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: Moose101 on April 28, 2008, 10:11:01 PM
Hi,

I believe this washer has two water pumps in it.
.....

Hi AJ

Yes there are two pumps and the recirculation pump sounds right as the other pump drains and that works fine and I’m presuming the ‘recirculation pump’ would run during the wash cycle.

Part - http://www.appliancepartspros.com/partsearch/ctrfs.aspx?part_id=251516&diagram_id=655572&&model_id=46670 (http://www.appliancepartspros.com/partsearch/ctrfs.aspx?part_id=251516&diagram_id=655572&&model_id=46670)

Now I’ve checked and there are two wires from the pump (Red 46 going to the Timer and the other Yellow 49 to the Pressure Switch). I don’t thing I’m able to pull the wire harness at the top as you suggest during the time that the noise is happening.

However, I can pull the two wires directly from the ‘recirculation pump’ thou IS THAT SAFE? I don’t want to fry the timer or pressure switch …. when I pull out the RED/YELLOW wires from the pump but I don't mind trying... Might be safer just to buy the ‘recirculation pump’ and try??

Thanks again..
Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: AJ on April 28, 2008, 10:17:51 PM
Quote
I’m presuming the ‘recirculation pump’ would run during the wash cycle.

That's correct.

Quote
I don't thing I’m able to pull the wire harness at the top as you suggest during the time that the noise is happening.

I unplug the wire harness from the pump itself. Not from the top.

Quote
However, I can pull the two wires directly from the ‘recirculation pump’ thou IS THAT SAFE?

You can unplug it before you even start the wash cycle if you would like.
Unplug the pump and start the washer up to see if the noise went away.



Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: Moose101 on April 28, 2008, 10:43:25 PM
Hey AJ

Well, NO NOISE  :) when the 'recirculation pump' was unplugged!!!

Guess I'll be going out tomorrow to get me one of them and we'll give it a go and see what happens.

I'll give an update tomorrow night or after I get one of these pumps.

Thanks  O0
Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: AJ on April 28, 2008, 10:49:38 PM
Sounds great,
Be sure to keep us updated. :)
Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: JWWebster on April 28, 2008, 11:22:20 PM
How does the recirculation pump work? Exactly?
Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: AJ on April 29, 2008, 07:14:53 AM
How does the recirculation pump work? Exactly?

It recirculates the water that is in the tub. Pumps it out of the buttom of the tub, through the pump and dumps it back into to the tub at the top.

Title: recirc pump
Post by: Repair-man on April 29, 2008, 07:16:35 AM
The auxiliary pump sends sudsy water thru a small hose to the top of the tub, where it is injected into the tumbling wash load. The load is constantly bathed in soapy water this way. The recirc pump usually only runs if the "stain cycle" button is used.
Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: AJ on April 29, 2008, 07:30:27 AM
I attached the two pages of the service manual that talk about the recirculation pump.
Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: JWWebster on April 29, 2008, 07:41:30 AM
I ain't never worked on a front loader but I am gonna have a good idea about how they work. That pump just looks like a GE washer pump on their new style top loader.
Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: sparky823 on April 29, 2008, 03:17:40 PM
I have the Neptune 4000 and I can see how the pump(recir) could make the noise but then why would the wash time change?

Also on mine, it may vary on models,the recir. pump is on at the Heavy Normal and Light settings at the start of the cycle and then shuts off when the timer advances past this point.
Then the recir pump is on again in Rinse #1 and #3. Since the one here wasn't doing it during the rinse maybe some of them are programmed different, but I know mine runs in the rinses also cause I have heard it.

I have always felt like by having this pump it helped use all the detergent since when it is dispensed at the beginning of the fill some of it has to be in the bottom of the drain so this pump picks that up and adds it back to the tub utilizing all the detergent BUT that is just my thought.

Wonder why they didn't put it on the newer model Neptunes?
Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: Repair-man on April 30, 2008, 06:00:27 AM
The recirc pump runs at different times on different series of machines. The MAH4000 went thru no less than 14 design changes during production. Us techs could never get used to one design, as it constantly changed.  They found that the recirc pump was actually not needed, since the baffle design on the Neptune allows for good soap penetration by itself. Also, the recirc pumps tended to get crusted up from all the detergent scale produced by the circulating soap. They decided it was not necessary to have 2 pumps.

About this time, they also chaged the door boot to one which has a drain hole at the bottom to eliminate the standing water/mold in the door boot. The inner door panel was refitted to have a large vent hole at the bottom for better air circulation thru the door area and to discourage wax motor failure in the door from moisture penetration. Lots of changes in 2-3 years, depending on the serial numbers.

Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: Moose101 on April 30, 2008, 01:56:21 PM
Hey All

Got a new ‘recirculation pump’ (PART#:22002792) and its all good. Actually I bet I could have left the old one in there and would have been fine also... but only after...

Once I took the ‘recirculation pump’ off to my surprise I found a few things in there that should have not been there and how it got in there is another story but I think it took a while for some of this stuff to work it's way into the pump  :D.

Found junk in there with something that looked like metal (hmmm screwdriver bit and something and more junk) so this stuff must have been working its way down for a while. Once I cleaned the original pump out I could have used it again but I did see a lot of scuffing and wear on the plastic fan and the enclosure. Since I had the new pump and everything was apart I just replaced it and kept the old one just incase.

Put it all together and runs like a 9 year old washer should (even after a little Control Board soldering and resistor/capacitor changes...).

ALL GOOD  O0  O0 ... Thanks guys... especially AJ for confirming my suspicions about the part...

Mark

SOLUTION: if you hear noise only a certain part of the wash for short periods I would just take the recirculation pump off and check the hoses around the pump (while your at it just take both off on the MAH4000) and clean around and put it back. Hope for the best as most likely that will get rid of the noise... my two bits
Title: Re: Washer Issue - Runs, Fills, Start Wash...Loud Grinding for 60s, Drain, Spin Done
Post by: AJ on April 30, 2008, 05:39:30 PM
Glad to hear you got it repaired. :)